Countersign

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Countersign is a podcast hosted by Stewart Motha, Professor of Law at Birkbeck. Stewart and guests discuss books, films, and other materials from across disciplines to consider new perspectives on law, difference, and being in common.

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‘When the trees have gone’ – Veraibari and the Pacific at the International Court of Justice

Feat. Alofipo So'oalo Fleur Ramsay & Watna Mori 11th February 2025 1h 4m More Information

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‘When the trees have gone’ – Veraibari and the Pacific at the International Court of Justice

Feat. Alofipo So'oalo Fleur Ramsay & Watna Mori 11th February 2025 1h 4m

Discussion with international lawyers, Alofipo So’oalo Fleur Ramsay and Watna Mori, on the impacts of climate destruction on the Village of Veraibari, Kikori Delta, Papua New Guinea. Veraibari is emblematic of wider devastation impacting small island communities and States in the Pacific and elsewhere as a result of climate change and biodiversity destruction. The International Court of Justice has been tasked with issuing an Advisory Opinion on the obligations and responsibilities of States in relation to climate change. We discuss what is at stake in the ICJ decision, and the varying positions adopted by States most responsible for GHG emissions compared with those most affected by their actions and omissions.

BIO: Alofipo So’oalo Fleur Ramsay is an international indigenous and human rights lawyer at Blue Ocean Law and has extensive experience as an environmental and climate justice lawyer in Australia and across Oceania. Prior to joining Blue Ocean Law, Fleur was pivotal in decolonising environmental law organisations, having spearheaded the creation of two indigenous-led programs at a peak Australian mainstream environmental law firm. She was awarded the Winston Churchill Fellowship to undertake travel and research innovative lawyering and best practice Indigenous environmental law practice.

Fleur has an excellent pedigree in law, having worked as a solicitor at one of the top law firms in Australia, and as a barrister at a prestigious chambers in Sydney, and as an associate to a judge at the Federal Court of Australia. She has been bestowed the chiefly orator titles of Alofipo from the Sale’aula village and So’oalo from Samauga village, both on the island of Savaii in Samoa. Fleur was appointed as a Visiting Professor of Practice at Birkbeck Law School, University of London. Fleur is also on the Steering Committee of the Fossil Fuel Non Proliferation Treaty and a founder of the Pasifika International Lawyers network.

Watna Mori is a Melanesian lawyer, rooted in her culture and kastom. She is a champion of the continuation of Indigenous ways of knowing and being and the development of pluralistic legal systems that give equal or higher recognition to Indigenous knowledge systems and customary laws. She has expertise on the emergent question of loss and damage for Indigenous peoples resulting from climate change. She has worked with the Papua New Guinea Constitutional and Law Reform Commission to regulate mine tailings disposal. She has also worked in the international humanitarian and refugee law space and has most recently worked at the intersection of human rights, indigenous rights and environmental law, at a large environmental law organization. In all her work, Watna strives to bring a new world into being, which can serve as a powerful alternative to colonial and capitalist constructs. She has an LLB and Bachelor of Arts from Murdoch University in Australia, and an LLM in Public International Law from the University of Amsterdam in the Netherlands.

Alofipo So'oalo Fleur Ramsay
Watna Mori
Remains of a tree at Veraibari (PNG)
Remains of a home at Veraibari (PNG)